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4 Man Pathfinder Mountain Troop Brick
Forum » Public Server » Public Server Discussion
Joined: 3rd Nov 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 105
9th Aug 2015

Summary: 

Introduce a 4 man Pathfinder "Brick" playable only when there are 4 or less people on the public server.  Once a 5th person logs in, the Pathfinder members have 20 minutes to RTB and log in as a regular squad member of their choice.

Purpose:

Make the server more realistically playable during the quiet periods of the day (on average the public server appears to have 4 or less players for at least 5 hours of each 12 hour daylight day).  Pathfinder primary function is force reconnaissance and LZ identification, clearance and security.  Therefore the PF function on the public server is to reconnoiter small compounds, clear IEDs for subsequent main force routes to major population centers and mark usable intel on the global map. 

Historical Context:

Primary role: airborne infantry 
Secondary role: light infantry 

The Parachute Regiment was formed in 1942 and since then has seen service around the world. At present it consists of the following elements: 

1st Battalion, The Parachute Regiment - 1 Para... Special Forces Support Group
2nd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment - 2 Para 
3rd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment - 3 Para 
4th Battalion(Volunteer), The Parachute Regiment - 4 Para(V) 
Pathfinder Platoon 

1 and 2 Para are based at Aldershot in Hampshire and form part of 16th Air Assault Brigade, along with the Pathfinder Platoon. 3 Para is located at Dover in Kent and is part of Britain's contribution to the Allied Command Europe Mobile Force (Land) - AMF(L). There is also a small Regimental Headquarters at Aldershot; this has no tactical function and is a purely administrative body. 4 Para has its headquarters at Leeds but its companies and detachments are scattered over the UK. 

Pathfinder Specialties:
 
The present-day Pathfinder Platoon was formed at the same time as 5 Airborne Brigade, in 1983. It was originally manned both by Paras and volunteers from other units within the brigade. Since 1996 it has formed part of the establishment of The Parachute Regiment. The Pathfinders have the responsibility for what are called Advance Force Operations. Chief among these is the covert reconnaissance, location and marking of Drop Zones(DZs), TLZs and helicopter Landing Zones. They may also be employed on target recces for air and land raids and limited high-value offensive action(OA). Pathfinders may be inserted up to a week before the arrival of the rest of the troops. Their role once joining up with the main force is that of brigade-level Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance (ISTAR). This involves operations beyond the range and capacity of the Patrols Platoons and other recce elements of the brigade. Recces could be on foot or in armed Land Rover 110 HCPU Desert Patrol Vehicles (DPVs).

Specialist Capabilities:

Resistance To Interrogation 
Combat Survival 
Jungle Warfare Skills 
Combat Medic 
Mobility Skills 
Helicopter Fast Roping and Abseiling 
Demolitions and Route Denial 
Mountain Warfare Skills 
Forward Air Controllers 
Long Range Communications Skills

The Pathfinders operate in four-man patrols (Bricks), four of which make up a troop under the senior patrol commander, a lieutenant. There are two troops, Air and Mountain, and a small headquarters, for a total strength of about 40, the platoon commander being a captain. Air Troop is trained in both High Altitude Low Opening(HALO) and High Altitude High Opening(HAHO) free-fall parachuting, while Mountain Troop utilises only HALO.

Operational Equipment for Mountain Troop:

GPMG (detachable from Pinky commander seat mount)
L119A1 (These are configured with 10 inch barrels and fitted with sound suppressors, AN/-PEQ-2 laser pointer / illuminators, fore grips and TA31RMR-A ACOG scopes topped with mini red dot reflex sights)
40mm  UGL
Sig Sauer P226 9mm pistol
M72 LAW Rocket Launchers
Land Rover 110 HCPU DPV
Springer ATV
Honda 450 ATVs and LOGIC SMT120b trailers

Mods:

NATO SF Weapons - L119A1 UGL Desert
Last Edit: 9th Aug 2015 by Joe
Joined: 14th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 317
9th Aug 2015

I like the idea, and something like this should be possible, but sounds too special forces for management to okay it.
Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 1021
9th Aug 2015

i like it lol but to be clear are u asking for a 4 man squad to be added to the public for when there's a low player count?

if so i could see this working i just dont think the "unit" you menction would be best because it does seem a little special forces with the veicles they use like the atv,weapons n stuff.

everyone knows i would love it tho hahahaha

editied



Signature Picture

"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

"its turns out that common sence - isnt that common"

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by JEFRO
Joined: 3rd Nov 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 105
9th Aug 2015

PF is regular British Army. Not SF at all.

Wouldn't be played like SF either.
Joined: 24th Jan 2015
Rank: Member
Likes 1293
10th Aug 2015

I personally don't quite see the use in this, besides a bit of added flavour for the price of a fairly large mod.
First of all we usualy play 'some nameless infantry unit' with no real background or anything, the pathfinders, consider them SF or not, are a rather specific force and do have a certain 'special snowflake' flavour to them.
Much more importantly however is how this would actually change gameplay. You might want to go into detail here a bit more because from what you wrote it doesn't become clear how a 4 man team that can only be used when the playercound is low benefits the players or the mission.
The 'validation' behind the different forces on the Public is that most of these forces were there 'in the old days'. The british forces are there because this is a UK based group, the americans are there because RHS is undoubtaly one of the best Army-Mods there are and adds tons of assets we can use. Delta CDF was brought back due to popular demand, as people liked to play a rag-tag force that was still in the 20th century. Swedish Delta was choosen due to the high number of swedes in this group, the good quality of the mod (as opposed to the somewhat lackluster CDF one) and the small size of the mod. The mod you suggest would only be used for one single weapon for a force that is only used in one of the gamemodes and not even all the time. Management tries to keep the mods one has to download small and I do believe that that is a good idea which is why I am opposed to the idea of adding the Pathfinders.


Snowball: "That was a textbook assault"
Cal: "What textbook are you fucking reading?"

"Will, you need to be more flexible especially when things start getting hard." - Jayman

Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 1021
10th Aug 2015

in my eyes atv's, supressors and just the "specialist capeabilities" and "pathfinder specialties" you quoted joe is enough to call them snowflakes and unfortunately it would be played that way with that style of equipment exp if it was 4 players in an empty server lol....... but if they do , what you say they do, then hey i could maybe see this being added to an operation as an attachment ? - rather than just placed in the public , after all they are regular british army so it should be used somewhere

could you provide any links joe and maybe show some of their use in 2010+ and with equipment and stuff ? - this usually helps when making requests and gathering evidence and overall helps validate your claims





Signature Picture

"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

"its turns out that common sence - isnt that common"

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by JEFRO
Joined: 12th Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1010
10th Aug 2015

I can understand that you have put a lot of thought into this joe and I commend the effort for doing the background research.

However management will not be implementing this suggestion for the the following reasons.

First off and in my eyes sort I dont see the point of adding a four man team when in the first place the insurgency teams are already 5 men strong. They are the same small adaptable size of the pathfinder team. The only difference is they are not called a pathfinder team and dont have gucci guns and equipment. The gamemode is designed to work with low player counts the main issue at the moment is how the AI spawn and at what quantity which is an issue that is being worked on so will be fixed soon. Wired puts some excellent work into this mission and most of the time submitting updates faster than management can upload them so it wont take long for these issues to get resolved.

Secondly you say they are to be used for recon. This is an understandable idea however it has one fatal flaw which is, if the pathfinders can only be played when they are only 4 people on and those 4 people are going to be in the pathfinder force then all they are providing recon for is themselves. They cant provide any live recon off enemy troops and the only recon they will then provide that might help the overall gamemode is spot/defuse IEDs, which in my opinion doesn't validate adding a 1GB mod just so we can have a squad that adds IED markers to the map.

Finally and possibly the main reason why managment dont support this idea is that it goes against one of the main ethos of TWC which is that we emulate standard infantry. Every arma group and their dog has done special forces to death a thousand times and isn't really unique anymore. You see it done by many groups and personally it is nothing special. Some of the most interesting and teamwork intensive Gameplay is done in large scale combined force operations. Additionally I know that you Joe are well versed in military tactics and know what you are doing and for better use of a phrase have "Common Sense" so this squad/team would suit a group of people like you. However not everyone is of the same knowledge of military tactics and procedures as others at TWC. Hence why we aim for Standard infantry. Because it is more excessible to the masses. TWC isn't good enough as a whole to do Special forces operations when people dont have the key battle skills that many of us have learnt over time and from dedicated attendance to training. That is not to say that I dont aim for that but it is always going to be difficult to demand such a high standards without making training compulsory to all.

If you would like to make a counter argument I am open to it so I will leave this thread open.



Gugliemo Cormacchio - Squid 18/02/16@20:01

Why do you drink milk ? It is meant to be consumed by one ton animals.

Because I want to be a one ton animal

DONT FORGET TO VOTE LOL....................

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by Will
Joined: 12th Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1010
10th Aug 2015

As this thread is a suggestion the following rules apply. 

Quote• Idea and bug forum boards require one post per   person unless you are asked to reply.   Do not hijack threads or make more than 1   suggestion.  
if one of your posts has been deleted it is because it has broken this rule of one suggestion per thread. I am fine with comments from you guys voicing your opinions on this but make another thread if you are suggesting things.


Gugliemo Cormacchio - Squid 18/02/16@20:01

Why do you drink milk ? It is meant to be consumed by one ton animals.

Because I want to be a one ton animal

DONT FORGET TO VOTE LOL....................

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by Will
Joined: 3rd Nov 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 105
10th Aug 2015

Thanks guys and Will, I shall respond later on. Actually in middle of training 3 PF (plus a bunch of 3 Para) chaps in Krav Maga. Ouch.
Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 1021
10th Aug 2015

ok so after having a look at this unit a bit more closely ,i would really love to use this in someway and think it should be re considered and i have retracted some of my previous statements

this may be the only valid way to use this type of equipment without being labled "snowflake" or "special forces" , as the unit in question is listed as reg army,and have been deployed to afghan more than any other unit so its not like there unheard of and special lol and with equipment/guns surely there shouldn't be too much of an issue using this equipment becasue they are not special forces. they are the last stage before sf and the sas i believe....

i know it is very specific with the unit, but i just feel it could be possible maybe not in the fashion suggested (public server)

i found a quick bit of evidence on the unit and what they do :

quote " the levels of discipline and skills required of Pathfinders are close to, if not entirely comparable to, SF. Indeed, a stint in the pathfinders is often a good grounding for those wishing to serve in the Special Air Service."

http://www.eliteukforces. ... /pathfinder-platoon/

https://en.wikipedia.org/ ... _Air_Assault_Brigade

https://www.army.mod.uk/r ... utist-reconnaissance

i am fully aware of the issues that could arise within the group ie abuse ect

the only suggestion i could make would be: either add them as an attachment in operations for members only or use them in member only ops if that was a thing lol (not 24/7 tho lol )

why members only ? because of the unit that they are, most are well trained and vetrans and that sounds like the members so i feel thats where it could work and be best suited



Signature Picture

"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

"its turns out that common sence - isnt that common"

Last Edit: 11th Aug 2015 by JEFRO
Joined: 11th Aug 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 151
10th Aug 2015

@JEFRO possibly members and recruits only?


"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by WibS
Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 1021
10th Aug 2015

i would say honestly no to recruits man just because the level of training/dicipline needed and it also helps with abuse and things like that being a member and that topic not being a worry

im not trying to leave them out or anything as i am 1 lol , just feel it works to be members only in a way it gives recruits something to work towards, just like the civvy slots in public


Signature Picture

"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

"its turns out that common sence - isnt that common"

Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by JEFRO
Joined: 16th Jun 2015
Rank: --
Likes 201
10th Aug 2015

Quotewhy members only ? because of the unit that they are, most are well trained and vetrans and that sounds like the members 
 so i feel thats where it could work and be best suited 
I would say a lot of members arnt "well trained", however with a motto 3s a crowd,  creates cliques and as we no theres a rule against this. Yer this would be a slot where "cliques thrive" and i no it would happen.

QuoteThe TWC environment should be an environment in which all are one group. No super-secret-no others-allowed internal groups, no cliques, no clubs, or anything else resembling this.
Having a team of 4 members running around with suppressors and other shiny spec opps stuff really doesnt sound appealing but thats just me.   
Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by Kieran
Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 1021
10th Aug 2015

like u have said kieran rules are rules , no cliques allowed lol , and i wouldnt expect that behaviour from a member anyway, i mean its not call of duty were playing....

i do understand your views i just feel they are a little bit of speculation as we have never even tried summin like this ...ever i think ...so therefore "this is where cliques would thrive and i know it would happen" is a bit unfair to say man.

as for "alot of members arn't well trained" lol , that in some cases is true but they have more experience than a guy who is a recruit that coulda been here a week lol


Signature Picture

"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

"its turns out that common sence - isnt that common"

Joined: 3rd Nov 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 105
10th Aug 2015

I don't know what the big deal is... They aren't special forces and its purely to keep people like me entertained on public when it's me and maybe 2 others for most of the day.

If the mod is an issue, then just use the M16A2 M203. It was their main weapon of choice until mid 2000's anyway.

It was a variant with a silencer available and a fore grip / tripod. The reason they moved to the L119A1 was because even with the silencer on the M16A2 the sonic crack was unavoidable.

And the Land rover 90 or 110 is fine too (.50 if possible) and a GPMG in the crate for the commander if he wants...? No need whatsoever for the ATV / Quads...
Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by Joe
Joined: 14th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 317
10th Aug 2015

Using the reason that this will cause cliques is a weak argument, if not a null argument, to me. The whole reason we are members is because we have shown that we can get along with everybody and that we are team players, and I would see this as no different from the civs. You don't play properly you no longer get to play as that unit.

The more I think about this, though, the less I see it fitting the public server. They will just be another squad working with the other squads. The only difference is they have silenced rifles, which gets cancelled out once the gpmg opens up. If you go with Joes original idea of only having the slots available when the player count is low then you lose 4 slots. Unless I'm mistaken our server is maxed at 45 slots, which I believe we already use all of those slots.

As far as having them available in the operations I like this idea, but that needs to be discussed in another thread. If no one creates one I'll start a thread, with my thoughts on the matter, later.

tl;dr For the public server it doesn't really add in a way that isn't already covered for the most part.
Joined: 16th Jun 2015
Rank: --
Likes 201
10th Aug 2015

Its only a week argument because of idealist thoughts that somehow when the player count is low members will now join the there tacticool roles with suppressors and kill bad guys while our public players slug it out, Ive already gone through how hard it is to communicate with different squads given the situation with the long range on a different post, now I don't understand how public players (who apparently are not competent enough to be in that role) would even bother joining the server given members are supposed to be the leading core of the group.

In reality what will happen is "Hey guys, now we finished playing wargame lets join our privileged slots and shoot shit"
FYI members only was a secondary suggestion im arguing how bad the idea is.
Last Edit: 10th Aug 2015 by Kieran
Joined: 14th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 317
11th Aug 2015

Keiran, you bring up another good point as to why it shouldn't be added. The fact that members should be easily available to help out is an import thing that we need to make sure is always available when possible, but that is if it is only made a members only slot. If it is added with it being open to everybody then it doesn't matter.

Maybe I haven't been around when it is a full server enough, but I don't think that people will go off like how you describe. I think the majority of people will play within the guidelines.
Joined: 3rd Nov 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 105
11th Aug 2015

It will be fine. Having a silencer available when there are less than 5 people on the server just adds realism to the way that I am forced to play the public server when that's the case.

Playing on my own or with up to three other people without silencers is just unreal and annoying.

Shooting a guy in the head through a window unsilenced yet the three tangos in the second house don't react... Just feels stupid.
Joined: 1st Aug 2014
Rank: Member
Likes 270
11th Aug 2015

Kieran i understand what you mean with your no to being members only but really is that any different to the civ or apache slots. Member privileged shots where you can go in and shoot shit [obv under certain conditions for civ]

Plus i really dont see how you can link someone playing another game like wargame to then being someone who couldnt give a rats arse about playing on TWC seriously.


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