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Insurgency Feedback Thread
Forum » Public Server » Public Server Discussion Locked
Joined: 23rd Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 594
7th Jul 2015

Thought I'd make a feedback thread rather than bombing its development thread.

Joined: 23rd Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 594
7th Jul 2015

First off, it's a really well made, interesting fun mission so well done Wired.

But I have some thoughts and issues.

- Weapons

Too many insurgent weapons in the boxes, weapon quantity also doesn't change as trust changes.

Less variety and attachments, should be basic weaponry (not various different versions of same gun) with sights only for the SVD

-Civilians

This might be a little controversial but I feel that there shouldn't be a change between the skins, they should be the same skin whether they have/ are carrying a weapon or not. This is not only due to the obvious realism aspect but also gameplay as its annoying to be permanently branded an insurgent/KoS. For example today Harry looked like an insurgent and was shot because of it despite his intentions of role playing a civilian.

Civilians also need more vehicles dotted around as at the moment they are spread out pretty sparsely.

Civilians should have access to a radio just so they can talk to other civs to coordinate RP and other legit activities and act as dickers for the player insurgents.

-Apache

The player count for the Apache needs to be upped to 20 at least, it is far too powerful and makes the game almost impossible for player insurgents, if this were a CQB/Urban map this wouldn't be an issue but there is little cover anywhere on Stratis and as a result as soon as the thermals pick you up you are screwed.

-Slots

As seen today it may be beneficial if there was another squad added to the mode.

-IEDs

Far too easy to spot, need to made much less obvious.
Is it possible to add IEDs that players can place?

=Bugs

Bandaging as Civ turns you into a insurgent.
At present there is apparently no option to respawn as player civ when Enemy Morale is high
Cache distance markers don't dissapear when cache is destroyed.
Last Edit: 7th Jul 2015 by Twiggy
Joined: 9th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 902
7th Jul 2015

- Map

Boring, Bland, doesn't feel anything like insurgency. Would love to see an old A2 map back, tho it would be more work.

- Slots

Without a doubt the mission needs at least another 2 squads, the server was completely full and still had 7-8 people in the waiting lobby.

- Bugs

Someone disarming an IED will make 'Disarm IED' on everyone's screen.



Joined: 12th Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1010
7th Jul 2015

@Forrest would you mind going in to more detail on why it...
Quotedoesn't feel anything like insurgency.
As this is a rather empty statement that creates more questions than it answers.


Gugliemo Cormacchio - Squid 18/02/16@20:01

Why do you drink milk ? It is meant to be consumed by one ton animals.

Because I want to be a one ton animal

DONT FORGET TO VOTE LOL....................

Joined: 2nd Jun 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 154
7th Jul 2015

AA can target you at base(hovering a few meters above ground) which can be quite annoying as pilot and caused my chopper to go down today.
I do like the way you have to move around as a helicopter pilot to make sure you avoid all sorts of nasty stuff though, just not when I'm on or near the base.
Joined: 16th Jun 2015
Rank: --
Likes 201
7th Jul 2015

I think human civilians shouldn't be allowed to steal blufore vehicles, i mean theres only 5 of us its impossible to keep guard of it. You cant drive in a built up area with it so we have to dismount and its really easy to steal.

EDIT: Tonight our squad was massacred by our own m113 we thought was friendly, seemed unfair. 
Last Edit: 7th Jul 2015 by Kieran
Joined: 9th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 902
7th Jul 2015

Quote@Forrest would you mind going in to more detail on why it...

As this is a rather empty statement that creates more questions than it answers.
Like when I think insurgency I think... desert, arid places, under armed cell groups, hot temps, very Barron rural places.

Like Reshmann, I miss that map by a land slide. It was so huge and allowed for such diverse gameplay it just made the whole aspect of the mission more in depth. 

...



Joined: 14th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 317
7th Jul 2015


Quote- Weapons

Too many insurgent weapons in the boxes, weapon quantity also doesn't change as trust changes.

-Civilians

This might be a little controversial but I feel that there shouldn't be a change between the skins, they should be the same skin whether they have/ are carrying a weapon or not.

Civilians also need more vehicles dotted around as at the moment they are spread out pretty sparsely.

Civilians should have access to a radio just so they can talk to other civs  to coordinate RP and other legit activities and act as dickers for the player insurgents.

-Apache

The player count for the Apache needs to be upped to 20.

-IEDs

Far too easy to spot, need to made much less obvious.
Is it possible to add IEDs that players can place?

=Bugs

Bandaging as Civ turns you into a insurgent.
At present there is apparently no option to respawn as player civ when Enemy Morale is high
Cache distance markers don't dissapear when cache is destroyed.
Weapons
-Currently, the weapons in the ammo box is what that particular box comes stocked with. I plan on changing that soon.
Civilians
-In the old insurgency your skin changed to that of an insurgent, but they also looked more like the civilians, too. If enough people like this idea we could possibly do this.
-Currently there is no script for the vehicles. This is just a temporary thing.
-Correct me if I'm wrong, but the old insurgency the civs did not get radios. Just insurgents. If I am wrong, or enough people are for this idea, civs can be given radios.

Apache
-Will/Fakematty take care of the blufor units. This is up to them, but I would agree with this. With how powerful the Apache is, and how small the island is, it makes things harder for the insurgents.

IEDs
-These are the same IEDs that we used to use. Would you say that it is too far into the road maybe? If they were placed a little farther off to the side, would that help?
-When I customize the loadout for the caches I will add these in.

Bugs
-I'll fix this ASAP.
-If you mean when an insurgent, this hasn't been added in yet.
-I'll be (hopefully) fixing this tonight.
...

Quote- Map

Boring, Bland, doesn't feel anything like insurgency. Would love to see an old A2 map back, tho it would be more work.

- Slots

Without a doubt the mission needs at least another 2 squads, the server was completely full and still had 7-8 people in the waiting lobby.

- Bugs

Someone disarming an IED will make 'Disarm IED' on everyone's screen.
Map
-Stratis probably won't be going away as the starting map, but I wouldn't have a problem porting this to a new map. I would like to flesh out the mission first before porting.

Slots
-This is up to Will/Fakematty, but I'm glad to hear that there was plenty of people on!

Bugs
-I'll be (hopefully) fixing this tonight.
...

QuoteAA can target you at base(hovering a few meters above ground) which can be quite annoying as pilot and caused my chopper to go down today.
I do like the way you have to move around as a helicopter pilot to make sure you avoid all sorts of nasty stuff though, just not when I'm on or near the base.
It would help if you could tell me the exact location of the aa gun that was able to get you. I'll try to take care of this tonight.
Joined: 2nd Jun 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 154
7th Jul 2015

QuoteIt would help if you could tell me the exact location of the aa gun that was able to get you. I'll try to take care of this tonight.
Sadly I cannot, all I know it was in a line somewhere between bearing 50 and 90 from the most southern part of the runway at the base, that's all I can tell you.
...

EDIT:
bearings
Last Edit: 8th Jul 2015 by Db
Joined: 12th Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1010
8th Jul 2015

@forrest

So because it is not Arabs who are the insurgents it is not the same ? I mean that opinion is a tad bit edgy as not all terrorists are Arabs. I mean I have really enjoyed it so far and have found it just as intense as it used to be. 

I fail to see it from your point of view and believe you may need to play it a bit more to become accustomed to it. This a new TWC with a NEW insurgency. We do somethings the same but not all. I would love to find a way to move Arma 3 player base back to Arma 2 I would happily switch back but we cant stay in the past forever. We as community have to build again from what TWC was in arma 2 and better it, to make what we always wished TWC could be the Number 1 Realism Public server in Arma. TWC has to evolve with Arma otherwise it will stagnate and die off and I will not let this happen.

I urge you to play it more before writing it off. I was skeptical like you at first when Wired Tiger suggested the Idea. But it is has grown on me and this evening I had an amazing session and I felt that it personally surpassed that of old TWC zargabad insurgency (the game mode this is directly emulating).

If you need help getting into the mood of it imagine that Greece leaving the EU (as may happen soon) didn't go to well. With strong anti-EU hate rife, civil war started with various militias supplied by Russia. Because of this NATO had to intervene help stabilize the strategic island of Straits whilst they battled the Russians on the main island of Altis.  AKA Eastern Ukraine 2.0 AKA Cold Wars:The Mediterranean Menace 

When CUP terrains is released in the future we may be able to do special days where we switch over to the old maps but as it stands I wont make some brand new Arma player download 11GB of mods through PW6 as that is how big the repo will have to be for what your are asking for or maybe even more. I think we have to make the best out of what we got and Arma 3 hasn't really gave us alot.

For example The only Arma 3 Assets we use are the supply trucks, an ammo crate and some H Barriers the rest of the content comes from mods. If the doesn't put in perspective how hard this has made it for  Realism communities to work without mods I don't know what will.

Hopefully your opinion like mine will change overtime and you will enjoy it more.


Gugliemo Cormacchio - Squid 18/02/16@20:01

Why do you drink milk ? It is meant to be consumed by one ton animals.

Because I want to be a one ton animal

DONT FORGET TO VOTE LOL....................

Last Edit: 8th Jul 2015 by Will
Joined: 9th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 902
8th Jul 2015

Quote@forrest

So because it is not Arabs who are the insurgents it is not the same ? I mean that opinion is a tad bit edgy as not all terrorists are Arabs. I mean I have really enjoyed it so far and have found it just as intense as it used to be. 

I fail to see it from your point of view and believe you may need to play it a bit more to become accustomed to it. This a new TWC with a NEW insurgency. We do somethings the same but not all. I would love to find a way to move Arma 3 player base back to Arma 2 I would happily switch back but we cant stay in the past forever. We as community have to build again from what TWC was in arma 2 and better it, to make what we always wished TWC could be the Number 1 Realism Public server in Arma. TWC has to evolve with Arma otherwise it will stagnate and die off and I will not let this happen.

I urge you to play it more before writing it off. I was skeptical like you at first when Wired Tiger suggested the Idea. But it is has grown on me and this evening I had an amazing session and I felt that it personally surpassed that of old TWC zargabad insurgency (the game mode this is directly emulating).

If you need help getting into the mood of it imagine that Greece leaving the EU (as may happen soon) didn't go to well. With strong anti-EU hate rife, civil war started with various militias supplied by Russia. Because of this NATO had to intervene help stabilize the strategic island of Straits whilst they battled the Russians on the main island of Altis.  AKA Eastern Ukraine 2.0 AKA Cold Wars:The Mediterranean Menace 

When CUP terrains is released in the future we may be able to do special days where we switch over to the old maps but as it stands I wont make some brand new Arma player download 11GB of mods through PW6 as that is how big the repo will have to be for what your are asking for or maybe even more. I think we have to make the best out of what we got and Arma 3 hasn't really gave us alot.

For example The only Arma 3 Assets we use are the supply trucks, an ammo crate and some H Barriers the rest of the content comes from mods. If the doesn't put in perspective how hard this has made it for  Realism communities to work without mods I don't know what will.

Hopefully your opinion like mine will change overtime and you will enjoy it more.

1. Not trying to be rude but I honestly couldn't give a dam if that's 'Edgy' It wasn't mean't to be and yes a cell group can be based in any place... Take project reality for example on BF, their insurgency are based in alot of Baltic states .

2. I'm not writing anyway off, don't know where you got that from? Maybe not jump the gun and act like I'm never going to play it.

-  Overall I like the NEW insurgency on the NEW twc.... I thank tiger for putting in the time to do it, but that doesn't mean I like that map.
I always said the two Arma 3 maps are completely shit and I'll stand by that. 



Joined: 21st Jan 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 446
8th Jul 2015

AA was west of 'old outpost'.This is in reference to DB's comment.
I would advise we didnt do anything however. Putting units in place to stop helo usage is smart and only gives the ground pounders a primary objective and sense of urgency when they cant get support from the Ugly and lifts from the BH.

For the record I think you have done an amazing job. Thank you for your efforts, it seems to have really galvonised the community!
Last Edit: 8th Jul 2015 by Phill
Joined: 2nd Jun 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 154
8th Jul 2015

QuoteAA was west of 'old outpost'.This is in reference to DB's comment.
I would advise we didnt do anything however. Putting units in place to stop helo usage is smart and only gives the ground pounders a primary objective and sense of urgency when they cant get support from the Ugly and lifts from the BH.

For the record I think you have done an amazing job. Thank you for your efforts, it seems to have really galvonised the community!
I would agree with you, if I fly with my blackhawk out of the base I should get mowed down as much as possible.
But on the airfield itself I am flying slow in a supposedly secured zone, once that aa site starts firing missiles at me  they all land in and around the base which means the spawn as well, yesterday already nearly killing a bunch of guys in spawn.
...

Joined: 31st Jul 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 154
8th Jul 2015

To not further indulge in in-depth discussion of INS aspects, here's my feedback.

Good!
+Intense combat
+small enough map for small-sized operatin'

Needs some tweaking
°IEDs are too easy to see (partially because the colour stands out)
°Maybe add an MRAP or two, they are designed for exactly this type of warfare
°size of enemy groups

Bad
-Can't think of anything i dislike right now, i'll edit it later maybe!


"The overwhelming majority of people who have ever fired a gun in anger were just pointing it in the general direction of the enemy and hoping for the best."
-Anonymous

Joined: 12th Feb 2014
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1010
8th Jul 2015

QuoteI always said the two Arma 3 maps are completely shit and I'll stand by that.
I completely agree with you here forrest that they are nowhere near as good as the maps Arma 2: combined Operations.
However the issue I had with your statement was...
Quotedoesn't feel anything like insurgency
Which should have nothing to do with what map it is on and is based on how the mission is set out in terms off BLUFOR Assets and the OPFOR's Tactics,weapons and force size. I would rather fix issues with these factors as these can be tweaked/changed unlike the maps which cannot.


Gugliemo Cormacchio - Squid 18/02/16@20:01

Why do you drink milk ? It is meant to be consumed by one ton animals.

Because I want to be a one ton animal

DONT FORGET TO VOTE LOL....................

Joined: 2nd Jun 2013
Rank: Inactive Member
Likes 154
8th Jul 2015

On another note, I feel like the way the insurgency system works now is a bit flawed.
Correct me if I'm wrong but what happens now is that squads of insurgents spawn on the outskirts of the city to attack you. 

I wouldn't have a problem with this if it didn't mean that once you start clearing a town like agia marina you find yourself getting attacked in your back, from the hill you were just on or the building you were just near, by a squad getting spawned there.

I don't know if it is at all possible that if for example you clear the southern side of agia marina that enemies stop spawning in the south and only spawn in the north and the other way around.

Another problem I had was that in the town of Girna, a relatively small town, we encountered NO enemies in the buildings itself and a ton of enemies spawning outside of it every minute or so (we could literally see them spawning in on the hill we were just on). 
This made it almost impossible to clear the buildings in this town as there were a lot of enemies every minute or so. 

I suggest that both the squad size of the insurgents gets lowered and spawn timer gets increased for small towns such as Girna. For Agia marina I don't really support this same idea as the town is bigger and it attracts more insurgents.
Last Edit: 8th Jul 2015 by Db
Joined: 14th Sep 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 317
8th Jul 2015

@dbecausing, there are insurgents that are already in the towns usually, but it is a small amount. I am going to be increasing this number, as well as the amount of civs. I'll also make adjustments to the spawn timing/squad size of the attacking insurgents. However, I probably won't get to it until the weekend.
Joined: 24th Jan 2015
Rank: Member
Likes 1328
8th Jul 2015

As for the enemy Force:
I do find it quite odd that the enemy force is russian (I mean they even speak it). Yes, I know, I know, it's supposed to be the Krimean 'Little Green Men' but it's still quite odd as they don't really seem all that Insurgent-ish.
I'm generally not a big fan of portraying the russians as the 'Bad Guys' and as such would prefer some other (somewhat more fitting) army to be our opponent in Domination. But at the same time I know that the Russian RHS mod is the best mod there currently is and that no other OpFor mods offer the same amount of troops and detail RHS has. As such I'm okay woth using them for Domination.
In Insurgency however it is quite odd that the enemy is dressed and equiped like regular russian soldiers. Not in a 'it's not plausible' way, because, as I mentioned 'Little Green Man' but simply because they don't quite feel like a rag-tag insurgent force that resorts to assymetric tactics.
Now my suggestion is propably a bit odd: Use the vanilla Arma 3 FIA Uniforms. Yes, I said it. Vanilla Arma 3. I know that many people harbour an emense hatred towards the game and I admit that it is somewhat justified but the vanilla Arma 3 FIA uniform looks quite good. It does use parts of the silly digital AAF camo and I don't know how hard it would be to make the Insurgents wear this uniforms but I believe it would be a lot more believable, as a regular dressed force like the russians right now are by definition not an insurgent force.
Or just change the name of the mission to 'Rebellion'.


Snowball: "That was a textbook assault"
Cal: "What textbook are you fucking reading?"

"Will, you need to be more flexible especially when things start getting hard." - Jayman

Joined: 4th Oct 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 1022
8th Jul 2015

My 2p

"insurgencey" i feel should be taliban "snackbar's" in a middle eastern country with ied's,civvs ect ect, im pretty sure 80% of people understand it to be like this, if you say " insurgencey " this is what they would think but remember what we do is also ok and correct , but its just not common or popular or "well known."...ie: covering a russian insurgencey..

i believe in this sence " it doesnt feel like insurgencey does it " is where it applies because i do feel the same, it dont feel like the true insurgencey we all know ...

and as for arma i think any middle eastern map and setting fighting taliban , would be much better suited than the current layout , and that is literally it, everything elese i think is good.

ok so i now have 2 questions

if we were to keep this style would the next "insurgency plus gamemode" if there was 1 be a takistan remake with that actual layout ?- if so i think current insurgencey would be looked at differently and i would defo be ok with the variation

if not then i would ask " @ wired is there ANY chance we could change the enemy to taliban and place it on a map like : baghdad , takistan mountains, zargabad , afghan valley , afghan village, any pakistan map there is also a really cool desert version of lingor.

i just think this would be better

i appricheate the hard work tony the tiger (wired) has done and it is really good the only things i would change is the above if its possible and not too much work unless it was woth it



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"magical realism is defined as what happens when a highly detailed, realistic setting is invaded by something too strange to believe"

"doing the average thing - will get you the average results"

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Joined: 11th Aug 2013
Rank: Public Player
Likes 151
8th Jul 2015

Quote"insurgencey" i feel should be taliban "snackbar's" in a middle eastern country with ied's,civvs ect ect, im pretty sure 80% of people understand it to be like this, if you say " insurgencey " this is what they would think but remember what we do is also ok and correct , but its just not common or popular or "well known."...ie: covering a russian insurgencey..

i believe in this sence " it doesnt feel like insurgencey does it " is where it applies
because i do feel the same, it dont feel like the true insurgencey we all know

I completely disagree, I think that insurgency can be based anywhere as long as its plausible. Second of all the term "snackbars" (without the apostrophe), is probably meant to mimic the term "akbar", I personally don't think this sort of language  should be used on the forum, especially where public players and visitors can see it.


"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Last Edit: 8th Jul 2015 by WibS
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